David Elikwu speaks with Richie Brave, a Broadcaster at BBC Radio 1xtra and Head of Diversity for a Publishing Company.

Richie dug into his background growing up in London, and how he was able to craft his own career, defining success on his terms to build a life that suits him. Finally, Richie shared some of the incredible grassroots work that he does in his local community.

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๐Ÿ“น Watch on Youtube

๐Ÿ‘ค Connect with Richie Brave:

Twitter: @RichieBrave

wemovefund@bbc.co.uk / bbc.co.uk/pudsey

๐Ÿ“„ Show notes:

Radio is something Richie was destined to go into [3:06]

Music was always big for him growing up [6:57]

Life for him coming up in the area that he lived in [12:10]

How Richie got into youth work and CBT [19:40]

Making the most of opportunities [24:30]

Hard work,doesn't always pay off [26:34]

Allowing people to reimagine and dream [33:49]

Financial freedom [35:44]

Using your platform to help others [39:37]

Building a career based on authenticity [44:46]

What it's like working with the BBC [47:01]

How Richie gives back [49:35]

Why respect is a major key [53:13]

Being online is a really weird thing [1:03:28]

We move fund [1:06:20]

๐Ÿ—ฃ Mentioned in the show:

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

Black Joy

British Broadcasting Corporation

Turbo Pascal

We move fund: Youth Social Action

Full episode transcript below

๐Ÿ‘จ๐Ÿพโ€๐Ÿ’ป About David Elikwu:

David Elikwu FRSA is a serial entrepreneur, strategist and writer. David is the founder of The Knowledge, a platform helping people learn more and live better.

๐Ÿš€ Career Hyperdrive

David runs a live course to help ambitious professionals take their careers to the next level. Join the next cohort to take control of your path, build future-proof skills, and design a career you can be proud of.


๐Ÿงญ The Knowledge

On The Knowledge Podcast, youโ€™ll hear from the best and brightest minds in business, entrepreneurship, and beyond. Hosted by writer and entrepreneur David Elikwu, each episode features in-depth interviews with makers, thinkers, and innovators from a variety of backgrounds.

The Knowledge is a weekly newsletter for people who want to get more out of life. In every issue, David shares stories, ideas and frameworks from psychology, philosophy, productivity and business. With insights that are both practical and thought-provoking, The Knowledge will help you think more deeply and get more done.

Website: theknowledge.io

Podcast: plnk.to/theknowledge

๐Ÿ“œFull transcript:

Richie: [00:00:00] I didn't know what I was working towards.

I didn't know where I went to be. I literally just took the opportunities that were presented in front of me and little by little, those opportunities took me in a particular direction. So, you know, some people are like, yo, this is my life. This is who I'm going to be. And when I am 45 years of age, this is, I said, I just want to be alive.

So as long as I'm alive, and I've got some money in the bank, I'll be happy.

David: Hey, I'm David Elikwu and this is The Knowledge. a podcast for anyone obsessed with learning more and living better. In every episode I speak with successful people from a variety of backgrounds to unpack everything they've learned about navigating the world around us.

This week, I'm speaking with Richie brave, who is a broadcaster and presenter at [00:01:00] BBC radio one extra. Man, this was such a great episode. I think one of the things that I love about this podcast and I I'm sure many of you do as well is the fact that there are some weeks where I get to speak with incredible founders and CEOs that have built 6, 7, 8 figure businesses.

And that is incredible on its own. And there's so many lessons and things to unpack there that are incredibly inspirational. But simultaneously I also get to speak with people who are experts in their field, in their own right.

But come from a variety of walks of life and are doing incredible things in their own fields. And Richie is one of those people. So he's a broadcaster and presenter, but we really dug into his background growing up in London, his early experiences,

and really, I think the bulk of it was this idea of being able to craft your own career and building a life that works for you. And then the other part, which is something I truly admire Richie for is the tremendous amount of grassroots work that [00:02:00] he does in his local community.

So again, this was a fantastic episode. You can find Richie on Twitter @RichieBrave.

If you love this episode, please engage with it. Subscribe, share it with a friend. And most importantly, please don't forget to leave a review because it helps us tremendously to grow the show and reach other people. Just like you.

So you do two jobs. What are they?

Richie: So I'm head of diversity for a publishing Company, and obviously I'm a presenter, broadcaster, also I'm kind of straddling two careers at the moment.

David: I want to ask more about those roles specifically, but I'm super interested in your background and how you got to where you are now. And that's like, one of the big reasons I wanted to have you on is because even when people think of being a radio presenter, that's one of those things that so many people say, particularly young people, right?

Was that something that you originally envisaged as something you wanted to do when you were older?

Richie: Do you know [00:03:00] what is so funny. So I think like with your hopes and dreams, they're swings around abouts, right? So they come and they go and they change throughout life. And I'd say radio is definitely something I've always wanted to do since I was young. And I forgot my dream a little bit, if that makes sense.

So when I was young, like I'd used to make fake radio shows on this little tape recorder that I had like to put little songs in there, it'd be really intricate recording songs off the radio and that. And I'd be only about six, you know, like five, six. And I used to listen to like a lot of baseline FM and all of that back in the day, these are like community radios, pirate radio stations, essentially.

And I'd always want to be part of them and on the show and getting involved. So for me, it's definitely a dream come true in a lot of ways. But it was, it, it came in a really indirect way.

David: That's one thing I find so interesting about the music scene in the UK, and I'm sure maybe there's an extent to which this is exactly the same in lots of other places, but I know for us when talking about black British people, okay. For, for a start to a disclaimer, I wasn't actually born here, [00:04:00] but I did come here, you know, as kid.

And so I experienced a lot of, you know, what, what everyone else experienced. So, but I know for you and for a lot of other people growing up, like music is a big part, and the difference for us from the black community perspective is I think music is something that we made for ourselves a lot of the time.

So music, isn't just what you're hearing on the radio, like the most popular tunes in the same way that if you're growing up and, you're hearing from a different demographic and you're hearing like Elvis Presley, or you're hearing the Beatles, if you want a form Liverpool specifically, okay. That might be close to you, but for most people that's just, that's somewhere distant.

Right. And then the music that they're making as popular music is somewhat distant. Whereas I definitely feel like for us, apart from maybe American music, like Motown and a lot of stuff that we had back then a lot of the music that

Richie: I'm not that old, you know, you Motown, you know,

David: no.

Richie: our joke, bro. I'm

David: mean like. I, at least from what I [00:05:00] experienced, a lot of the music I grew up listening to was our music. I was listening to people at other schools. I was in school, I'm listening to like rappers and people in other schools and the music that they're making. And by the time I'm listening to radio, those are still like all of the rappers that I know a lot of them are people that my friends went to school with.

So even though there's people that you see now, like Stormzy or even okay, Cadet who has passed, unfortunately, but those are people that my friends went to school with. So when I'm listening to that music, not so much now, cause they are a lot bigger now, but at least back then, it was so much closer to home.

Richie: Do you know, what's interesting as well, and I think is often overlooked in black communities specifically. So if you're from west Africa, if you're from the west Indies, like I am like if you're, you know, of Caribbean descent, like essentially music was a way to connect you with your culture and connect you with home.

So we'd come together. If you listen to like dance or reggae sound system culture all of those carnivores itself is based and rooted in [00:06:00] Caribbean music. Right. And essentially it was a taste of home. So, you know, if you look at people, if you look at white communities in Britain, they're connected with something that living in right. You're your white British, you're connecting with a music. That's all around you. I think specifically for us, when we came over from west Africa, east Africa, South Africa, the west indies, south America, music was a way for us to keep up to date with what was happening in our home countries and in our home areas and home, it allowed us to create a culture for ourselves.

And then offshoots of that, you look at the lovers rock, you know, I'm a, I'm a music lover in it. So you look like your lover's rocks that you look at your hip hops, your jungle music, you had like dance artists from the UK. And then you look at like dubstep and garage and grime and Afro swing and all of that kind of stuff.

There was that kind of, that touch of home. Right? Our roots are embedded in the music that we create, which is really specific for us as black, British people. I think

David: So music has always been a big part of your life.

Richie: Yeah, bro. Honestly, like when it comes to me [00:07:00] and music and what's so wild about the relationship that I have with music is it's underpinned everything for me. You know, some people are like football heads and sports heads, and this heads. Me from my youth collecting music. Wasn't interested in, well I was a computer geek as well

when I was young. I wasn't interested in anything where everyone was out there playing sports. I was in my room listening to tunes. I didn't want to go anywhere cause I was just listening to music. My dad's a music man. My mum's a music man. My, my uncle is a sound man. Like literally I come from a long line of musical people.

I am not just a music lover. I'm a music fanatic. I am obsessed, obsessed with it.

David: I love that. So you, so that was always something that you were kind of destined to go into in some way.

Richie: Yeah, in some ways. So, I mean, for me on the radio as a broadcaster, I am a talk broadcaster right. So what I do specifically is talk, so I speak a lot about black culture, but I don't think essentially you could do that without having some sort of understanding of music, the music that underpins our [00:08:00] experience.

So for me, like what's really good for me is I've got that talk experience from like being like a CBT therapist and all that kind of stuff. But because I'm a music maniac as well, I can do like my weekend show and have those really deep conversations. And then I can go and cover a music show in the daytime and know what I'm talking about.

I can do an Afro beat show. I know the ins and outs of it. A dance will show an R and B show just because of the things that I love. So it's being able to take something that really sits within you and create something as a result of it.

David: Sure. You mentioned a couple of things there, like being a CBT therapist. So maybe take me on the journey of how you got to being where you are now. Cause I know that there's a lot of really interesting stops along the way.

Richie: Yeah. So, I mean, if we're doing my whole life story, I'm going to try and condense it into a couple of minutes. I started off as somebody who was interested in computers, like I said, a computer geek. So everything I did in school, I was quite a high achiever in school. Did really well A's and not on my GCSEs and was really focused on computers.

Went to [00:09:00] college, a number of things happened in my life. I got kicked out of both colleges that I went to because I was just a bit of a rough yout had I had a lot going on. And then I went into the probation service and did many years. I was a youth worker from the age of 16. So when I went into the probation service at 19, my youth work experience allowed me to go into that.

And then I specialized in rehabilitation programs where you're changed, where you're trained to deliver CBT based programs based on like domestic abuse or sexual abuse or violence or drink drive in all of that kind of stuff.

David: Could you just define CBT just quickly.

Richie: So I'm so sorry, cognitive behavioral therapy. So basically what that is, is like your thoughts, feelings, and behavior.

If you're able to influence your thoughts, it has an impact on your feelings and then it has an impact on your behavior. So that's what CBT is giving you relevant skills to change your behaviors or approaches to things. So I did that for years, and then I was writing reports for call on people pretty successfully because none of the people I wrote reports on went to prison.

You know, I [00:10:00] kind of really like honed in on my community and was able to do a lot from that perspective. But that, I'm saying all this to say, and this is short one last point, I did all of that. And those interviewing skills that I got from the criminal justice system allowed me to be a great broadcaster, an interviewer and presenter, because I picked up those skills that I used and use them with celebrities.

And, you know, your average like day people that you sit down and speak to.

David: Amazing. You know what? I actually really want to, dig deep on some of those earlier years. I know that obviously it's not so much what you're doing now, but what I find really interesting. Let me speak for myself. And the position that I'm in is one what I find so interesting. And I feel like there's always this constant duality for me.

So right now, full-time I work in tech, I work this big tech startup that's growing really fast. And before that I was working in corporate law. So again, it's this big, like, like one of the biggest firms in the world. So not in terms of humble bragging, but to say that the people that I'm surrounded by, I live in an entirely different world from the [00:11:00] world that I grew up in.

And when you just mentioned, okay, that you got kicked out of a or, you know, you had trouble in college and all of that

Richie: no, I got kicked out. You're right.

David: Okay. You got kicked out. Okay. But I was in that position as well. I got kicked out of school, actually. Okay. Technically. Oh, I left just before I got kicked out. They'd already arranged the school governors meeting to decide whether or not I'd be kicked out.

But I think I had 386 incidents slips by the time I left. And this is in year nine, this is in year nine. So I'd only been, I'd only done two and a half years at that school before I had to leave. So, but, but what's crazy, at least for me is that that's not the side of me that I really get to like represent every day I mean?

That's not something that I'm going to necessarily go around talking about. Not that I said there's an issue with that, but not everyone gets it and not everyone gets what life is like in certain areas or certain neighborhoods, or so maybe tell me more about what [00:12:00] life was like for you coming up in, in the area that you lived in and what that experience was like.

Richie: Yeah, I think I'm really lucky in that my parents tried to give me all that they did the all that they could, but I came from kind of a poor background. Really. I hate to be the stereotype, but you know, All the latest trainers in order that the kids had in school. I didn't have none of that. My parents basically made sure there was always a computer in my house and we could go on holiday once a year, if we possibly could.

That was the luxury and everything else was just, you know, I went in Deptford market to buy my clothes. You know, that's why I got my school shoes from like ShoeZone and that when people were pointing and laughing at them kind of shoes, but for me, like my parents were big on experiences and resources, as opposed to making sure I'm in the latest fashion, you know, that kind of stuff.

And we just couldn't afford it, bro. Like if it wasn't Deptford market, we've got it all on catalog and was having to pay two pound a week and all of that. So I came from that. An area that's considered really violent. I was in the midst of like real bad gangs and all of that. I'm from new [00:13:00] cross. If anyone knows what new cross was in like late nineties, early two thousands, that was a crazy area to be a young person in.

You know what I mean, to be a kid in. So like I come from that, man. I've lost a lot of my friends to murder my cousin. And this is why I think I got kicked out of college. My cousin was murdered when I was 17. We were best friends, two weeks between us, you know, stabbed in the heart. And that was it. So like, I just think.

When you come from those particular backgrounds where it's less about living and more about survival and trying to survive your childhood, rather than trying to live your childhood and people don't get that happens in these countries, it provides you a particular perspective. But I think when you see so much hurt and pain in your community, and I definitely saw it in my and joy.

And I don't want to label the negative points, we had sound systems come to our ends, the kids all knew each other. When we were really young, my teacher in primary school was amazing and champion young black people. I was a gifted kid, very intelligent. Don't know what happened now, but you know, gifted child, he put me in like gifted child programs.

I got moved up three years in school when I was like six, [00:14:00] seven years old in order to act. So there was a lot of positives that was happening in the ends, but that, that the area, because it was so deprived and because there wasn't any. There wasn't enough resources, I think, as a direct impact on what you think you can be, you know, what you want to be, but there's a difference between that and what you think you can be.

Right. So even going into youth work and community justice, I think a lot of that for me, bro, is attempting to try and heal my community in some way and find out what the hell was going on. Do you know what I mean? So it underpinned a lot, a lot of what I do, man.

David: Yeah. so much of what you said resonated with me as well, because I think even with my background, for example, I don't even think I necessarily, I didn't grow up in like the roughest area. Okay. When I first came to the UK, we lived in Lewisham and then we lived in Penge we're moving around a bit. Yeah.

And then we moved to north London. You know, in, in many ways, like nicer or safer

Richie: Yeah Yeah

David: but still, I think, I don't know if it's just the kind of school that I went to or that maybe the kind of people that you clump to, but [00:15:00] even from what you were saying, I think you just see a lot at a very young age. Like I remember even year seven, year eight my first day of secondary school, I was in a fight.

So I was at, I was in detention from day one and that already sets the trend of, you know, where you're going to be going, because those are the first people that you meet is everyone else that's in detention. And then that's your, those are your new friends. Now you're in detention like half the days of the week, blah, blah.

And you'll go

Richie: On report

David: Yeah.

exactly. I was On report actually. I was on report from long before that,

Richie: Say four years spent on rapport.

David: Yeah, exactly. Mine was probably a longer if I'm honest, that's why I'm happy to be where I am now, but I feel like I was extremely fortunate. So like what you were saying, I think, you know, I was bright.

I was in like top sets for everything, but I think part of, part of the issue actually for me was when I came from Nigeria, I was actually like two classes ahead. And as we were moving around, because obviously, maybe it took a bit of time to settle. [00:16:00] I think when I first came my mum couldn't come, with us she needed to sort out her visa.

So it was just me and my dad. Then my mum came after, so, you know, there's a lot of transition there. And in that time, I think as you move to different schools, then they're like moving you back to saying, oh, we want you to be with your age mates or all of this. So by the time I've moved school, I think at least twice now in the UK.

So this is now my third even primary school. I'm doing stuff that I've already done in this class. So I'm bored, so I'm not really paying attention. I don't need to focus. I don't need to concentrate. And that's what leads to misbehavior and leads to all these other things. But what I'm interested in is, cause I remember when I joined secondary school, I called, I couldn't tell you what it was like, how I ended up getting into so much trouble.

I just think a lot of it is just your environment and the kind of things that you see, you get. See, you see, you know, you go to fights, people, bring knives. Even from like 11, 12, 13 years old, you're seeing all of that. You're exposed to and all of that. And I know that for [00:17:00] me, I was very fortunate in that.

I feel like I got in so much trouble. So young. If I was getting in that trouble at 16, I wouldn't be here today. That's why I can tell you, but because I was getting in that kind of trouble at like 12, 13,

Richie: When you was young

David: Already, yeah, exactly, I already had my final police warning and I already had all of that stuff from very young.

So I already knew. So I remember getting told that if I got in trouble again if like, I think that was like my last warning, so it was the earlier of five years or when you turn 18 that you have like this temporary record for, so you're just, so now I have to be good.

now it's by force.

Richie: Yeah, but the policing of young people, and I think the problem that I have with that right, is nobody, everyone wants to view the young person as a problem, but never wants to get to the root of the issue. So why is this person acting out in a way that they are?

Because to me, I started moving mads cause I got bored of everyone taking the effin p out of me. You know what I mean? I got bored of I was like, yo, like, [00:18:00] cause I'm quite a soft natured, loving person. I am very like, I'm a big softie, a proper care bear I always say it, but like growing up in a particular environment like that doesn't do anything for you.

So you get to a point where you're like, you know what people keep taking me for a mug. And I'm sick of it. So normal it's to see my softness in school in terms of the teachers, all they saw was me running my mouth, but I experienced bullying from pupils and teachers. So you get to a point where you're like 14 and you're like, nah, I'm not having this.

Are you mad? I'm not a fool. So I got to a point where I was like, I've had enough. None of you are going to sit down and ask me what's wrong. You all want to act like I'm a problem. All right, cool. Let me be a problem for you.

And that's the way it went, man.

David: So how did you find that you were able to remove yourself from that? Cause, so that was the point I was going to get to, for me, I felt like I was lucky because it was forced, like I was forced to move school and it was either, so my dad ended up having to take a loan. So when I left, I told you about how many incidents slips I had.

Richie: Yeah. And you said police as well,

David: Yeah. So no, no, no other school in my borough would take me. So my dad had to get alone and I had to [00:19:00] go to like an international school that was still in my area. Otherwise we'd have to move house again. I moved to a whole different area. So I was very fortunate in retrospect that I kind of got uprooted from that situation and just go move somewhere else completely.

And now I have to make new friends and I have to do it all again. And that gave me a fresh start. And all of a sudden, within like half a year now I'm in gifted and talented. Now I'm doing this and I'm doing that. All kinds of flourishing comes from that. So I'm interested, like for you particularly, also at the age that you were like, how did you find that you were able to go from a place where, you know, you start where you're getting in trouble, you're getting involved in all kinds of things.

And then you go from there to now you're being able to help other people. You're helping other young people, you're doing the CBT related things. How do you make that?

Richie: I found friends who saved me. So I made friends. I had a friendship group when I was about 17, who loved me unconditionally and helped me through my pain. And if I didn't have them, I don't know who I'd be right [00:20:00] now. They completely, and I wrote about them, The Black joy book that came out, like I wrote a or a chapter in it.

And I spoke about them because they completely changed my life. You know? So it's, I'd say the way I was able to do that is I found my tribe. Right. I found a group of people that loved me, like family, and that completely changed my life. And I had a mom and dad who completely loved me and removed pressure from me.

They said to me, yo Richie, like after going through like the murder of my cousin and stuff, they are a bit like, you know what, as my son, I want to see you. Your happiness is paramount. We can see you're in a bad place. It's not about achieving right now. It's about being a happy person and healing yourself.

So my parents removed that pressure and I felt a lot freer. So I'd say that's what spun me around. Like having parents who really loved me and supported me and having a friendship group that embraced every single part of who I am.

David: That's so true. And I think what you just said also speaks to how big of an impact the people that you either are [00:21:00] surrounded with, or the people that you intentionally surround yourself with, how big of an impact they make on your life and your trajectory.

Richie: Definitely, man I was someone who just didn't take no for an answer. So like when I got kicked out of my first college, cool. And then I became an IT manager at 16, you know, IT manager at some a racial equality organization that does fantastic work with the 1990 trust. And then I went the day, my cousin was murdered.

I went to I went and signed up to college, so I knew I wanted to achieve something. Right. And then I got kicked out of that college. And then I spent a year raving. Got tired of it and was like, I need to get a job now. So I got a job in it. And even through that time where I was just raving, I was still volunteering as a youth worker.

So I always had something to do. I like to be occupied doing something great. So even with all of that stuff going on, I was always looking at, I was always wanting to do something and it was just lucky that I was doing things that I led me to being who I am now.

David: Okay. Did you end up going to like finishing college or [00:22:00] going to university?

Richie: No, I did. Uni later on in life, you know, so I uni as an adult through my job, but I didn't go to uni. I didn't finish college. I wasn't on it. I just went into work.

David: I love that.

Richie: Which interesting. Right?

I was just going to say, like, in terms of, and I think this is what's really important. I'm not saying, oh, don't finish school and don't finish university.

I think they are fantastic people. They are a fantastic thing. Sorry to have under your belt. Right. But you know, if you are unable to go to university and you are unable to go to college, you really can achieve, like, I didn't do that. I wasn't able to finish that. And I'm still successful. Sometimes more successful than people who have gone through all of that.

And maybe in a few years there'll be more successful than I am, but there's always hope, man. There is always hope.

David: Absolutely man. Like I didn't, I didn't finish my degree. Either so, well, I say I have a, you, you did your side. I, I Yeah. That's what I'm thinking. I'm hoping, you know, my dad says it will, but I'm hoping it doesn't come back to bite me.

But I think that's a [00:23:00] big thing because and it really does tie into what we were talking about about like upbringings and stuff, because I also think that we are conditioned to believe that there's only one way to become successful and then it becomes very difficult to create your own path outside of that, because there's very much a situation where even from school, Teachers already looking for, who's supposed to be the brightest kids and then they are pigeonholding them into, okay, you're bright. Now you're going to apply to Oxford or Cambridge. You guys go over here, the rest of you, kids, you know, figure it out for yourself. And this is the only way you have to go from, from secondary school.

You go to sixth form and you go from sixth form, and you go to university like this is the way. And so maybe I'd love to hear from you about how you found that process of figuring out for yourself, because I can imagine, well, I don't know how many people were in a similar position to you, but I can imagine that very often it can be a bit isolating because maybe you see some people that you grew up with that are taken one particular path or going the complete opposite way. Because you are still aspirational, you're still trying to build something. And I think what you [00:24:00] typically get, or you typically get is on one hand, there's the people that just leave the system completely and they're not doing any of that. And then on the other hand, you get people to all following the traditional route and it looks like they're progressing and it looks like they doing things the normal way.

Richie: David, you know what I was trying to build, but I didn't know what, you know, I was just got on vibes. I was just like, it's just vibes. I need to be occupied with something. What am I good at? Ah, let me go and do that. So like, my life probably properly was just vibes. I didn't know what I was working towards.

I didn't know where I went to be. I literally just took the opportunities that were presented in front of me and little by little, those opportunities took me in a particular direction. So, you know, some people are like, yo, this is my life. This is who I'm going to be. And when I am 45 years of age, this is, I said, I just want to be alive.

So as long as I'm alive and I've got some money in the bank, I'll be happy. So basically like even so you see the probation thing, I said, I went into criminal justice. I don't remember applying for the job. I [00:25:00] got an interview like, oh, and I was like, oh, sick. I all right, let's go in. So I went in as Admin and then doing the cognitive behavioral therapy groups came up, a job, came up.

So I just applied bro I was only 20, you know, young. So 21, I went into that job doing CBT therapy with grown adults murderers baddest man on road. All of that I was really young, but it was just vibes. And then the next step into broadcasting, somebody believed in me and was like, yo, have you ever thought about doing a podcast?

I've seen you online. I did a panel event. He was like, you're wicked at panels. Have you ever thought about doing a podcast? I was like, yeah, of course I have. David, lies.. I didn't even think about I was just vibesing. You know what I mean? Cause I feel I want to get in there somehow did a podcast. It was a success as a result of the podcast got brought on to do another one on the BBC and then it was like, well, these podcasts are amazing.

Do you want to come and do one extra talks? And here I am. You know, so it was, David it's vibes. I was like it's some, yeah, deeply did a plan it was for the vibes man.

[00:26:00] Hard work, but vibes

David: Exactly. I think that's it. It's, it's two things. One is hard work and two is the consistency. And I think that's also the part that you showed as well, which is okay. There's vibes in that you're just figuring things out as you go along, but you're also building skills intentionally.

Like even if you land in a position that you may not have planned to be in while you're there, you're picking up skills and then you're leveraging them to get the next thing.

Richie: That is it. And that's not always easy to be honest, David, I think like we live in this myth now and you see it a lot online that we live in some kind of meritocracy. And I don't necessarily believe that. I mean, hard work. If, if hard work paid off, then all of those people who are out there do it cleaning for 13, 14 hours a day would be the richest people on earth.

Right. So I think, you know, like hard work, doesn't always pay off. If we look at capitalism, classism and all of that kind of stuff, and we'll probably get to that a bit later on in the conversation. But I would say I've been really lucky and my luck and maybe [00:27:00] some of my, my achievements when I was young and you know, my maybe tenacity were the things that paid off for me,

you can't tell me no, man,

David: No, I love that. I think the exact same way. And I think you said two really important things there. One was about meritocracy. And it's so interesting because I wrote about this in my, in my newsletter a while ago, but I genuinely think that meritocracy exists for the people that believe in it.

And that's not a, a, you know, speak what you want into the world. Kind of thing that I'm saying. But what I'm saying is I genuinely think a lot of it is about mindset and not that some people don't have the right mindset. I don't want to couch this too much, but my point in basically being that, I genuinely think if you grow up in a kind of environment where one, you see a lot of role models, you see people that look like you, they have confidence, they have audacity, they have certain skills.

They're attractive. All of those things you already believe success is possible. Then you're taught that, oh, if you [00:28:00] just work hard it's possible. I think it becomes very easy to adopt that worldview because it looks like it's possible because you see so many examples of people that look just like you doing those things.

And it looks like, oh, if I just work hard. And so I genuinely think that a lot of people do believe that, but the reason they believe that is because they were brought up to believe that. And I think they don't necessarily, they only have the perspective that they have. Whereas I think, other people that are growing up in different circumstances also have the perspective that as much as you might want to work hard, there were other things that are systematic and institutional things that can prevent you from getting things that you want.

And so I think it is equally important to have that mindset where you don't take no for an answer, a hundred percent important. That's been the, one of the biggest keys to success for me and for you as well.

I also think you have to be able to recognize that there are other things. It's not that these things will stop you.

And I don't think that you should have these limiting [00:29:00] beliefs that, oh my gosh, as hard as I work, you know, I'm not going to be able to make it because of the police or because of schools or because of whatever system is in place, you can work around that. But there is just inherent in the society that we have.

Unfortunately, not everyone that works hard or has those beliefs will have equal amounts of success.

Richie: The majority of people will not. And that's how capitalism and classism works the majority. So what ends up happening for me, David, is they hold up these very specific examples and say, look at this person who is very amazing. And they worked very hard and look what they can achieve for one Richie Brave. There were probably about a hundred Richie Braves up there that are probably better at me and more talented than I am and more intelligent than I am, but they weren't lucky enough to have the opportunities that I did.

So would say hard work has definitely been a factor in, in my, in my journey, but I am under no I'm under no illusions that [00:30:00] there are probably lots of men out there. My age had the same opportunities that I had, but just what, or have all the same skills and better than I have, but just weren't lucky enough to have the same opportunities for me.

That's why open as I did. So that's why opening the door is really important for me.

David: Absolutely. I definitely agree. And I think even from what you were saying, luck is also the other important thing and every, every successful person, however you want to think about it for yourself. Every person that has some success has luck, loads, and loads of luck for me, for everyone that I know whether you acknowledge it or not, everything that's ever happened in your life has been some form of luck.

You don't, you're not, you're not born. And you decide that, you know, every decision that goes in your favor has to be that way. And everything that you write has to be perfect. Like none of those things are things you can predetermine. Those are the things that happen to you. And, but I think the one thing you can do and, and you've done is that you can put yourself in a position to benefit [00:31:00] from luck when it happens.

So you can

Richie: Bro, I'm one of the luckiest people alive.

David: No for real, but you, you, you have to be, you have to be, and you have to like build your skills. And like you said, because this is the other side of, of what you said as well, I can equally imagine that as much as there's a hundred Richie Braves that have, that wouldn't even get the opportunities that you might have had, just because of luck.

There's also a thousand Richie Braves that have been in that position where someone might suggest something, or there's an opportunity that comes up and they're not inquisitive, or they don't capitalize that opportunity. And they don't seize the moment. And that happens so much, whether it's because we have something in our minds that says, I can't do this, or I'm not good enough.

Or sometimes, maybe there are people that are just don't have that same, maybe like hunger or the same ambition that you might have to seize yeah,


So, so people don't always seize on the opportunities that exist. So I think, yeah, it's, it's that there's two factors. One is [00:32:00] that we don't create enough opportunities in the first place two, is that okay? It's actually three things. Two is that we don't do a good enough job of signposting opportunities because there's loads of things that exist.

And this, you know, this is going back to something else that you mentioned that it made me think about is that I think that one of the biggest issues that we have, and this is why maybe classism and some of these other things still play such a big factor is because going back to what I said before, where we're taught to believe, there's only one way so long as we believe that there's only one definition of what success looks like, there's only, there's a limited opportunities to be that version of success. When they hold up one person and they say, you know, oh, you know, they did X, Y, Z. They graduated with this, they did that, they did this masters they got this job. Okay. There's only limited numbers of people that can do that exact path, but that's not the only way to be successful.

Richie: Yeah definitely

David: I can make my own path and be successful and do [00:33:00] well. And I think we don't necessarily emphasize that's enough, the possibility of everyone building their own version of success.

Richie: Def, and that is why that is why I think it's so important to assess is relative. And it changes by generation as well. Success for my grandparents who had just been able to survive this England, like, because it's, so it was so racist when they and it's still proper racist, but they couldn't even get homes in that.

Right. So success for them was just survival for successful. My parents' generation, a lot of them was just having a home that they can call their own and that they can buy for our generation is being a homeowner and having the dream and having, what is it? Six figures that people talk about all the time on the TL and stuff, you know, so I think success is dependent.

It, it changes , I had a conversation recently about young black youth. Right. And it was about like allowing young black people to reimagine and to dream and just dream about a future for themselves. And I think that's so important. We're so fixed on [00:34:00] putting these people in boxes that we don't allow them to dream up a future for themselves.

So I think what you have touched on quite rightly is continuing to push man. And you know, when it's young people coming up, or even if it's people, your age are older, keeping the door open to people, man, like not gatekeeping your experience, giving people a door in or a foot into what you're doing and allowing them to see it and feel it, experience it and do it for themselves.

David: Absolutely. And it's so funny that you mentioned the six figure thing. Cause I was thinking about it on my way, on my way home. I was thinking about it at the train station, but it's so funny how that is a legitimate people. There's a lot of people that think they are not successful. They will be miserable because they don't make six figures.

And when you break that down, first of all, people are talking about six figures in terms of salary and people have this idea that, oh my gosh, this, I need to be making six figures. Okay. But in England, If you get six figures, salary, you're not getting paid six figures. You're getting paid like 55 K ish or so, you know?

Okay. So it's not the

Richie: [00:35:00] a lot of money

David: Well, what I'm saying is people are obsessed with this status of what they think is success. And that's not even what it is. First of all, it's like half of that. And so, okay. So is it the, is it 55 K that you need, or is what you actually wanted?

The real ambition behind what you labeled it as that you just want to be comfortable and you just want to be happy. So that's, that's what I'm trying to get at is that sometimes because we put this certain label that we have to achieve X really well, you're not asking what you want. Isn't X, that's not actually what you want when you break down and you think about it properly.

That's not what you want. And so when you break down. This is the core of what I need. I just want to have some form of financial freedom. I don't want to be, you know, counting my purse every time I go to buy eggs, you know, there there's a much smaller version of what you need then you can think about, okay, how else can I do that?

Maybe there's plenty of other ways without making loads of money or [00:36:00] without obviously I want everyone to make money, but without, you know, I also think, you know, earning six figures, there's potentially a limited number of professional careers that you can do that you can definitely do it in creative fields or other ways.

But if you're thinking about professional careers, there's a limited number of fields. And so you have everyone trying to squeeze into one pair of shoes because they think that this is what you have to do to be happy, but there's so many other things you can do.

Richie: I want some more money though David I more money.

David: Same! No, But okay. part of the reason I was thinking about it is because it's not even like I was, I'm making loads and loads of money, but I feel like I'm okay.

Richie: Yeah. You got financial freedom.

David: Yeah. Like I feel like there's an extent to which okay. As much as I might want more money and I'm actively trying to make it, I feel like I am more comfortable than some people that are striving to earn more than I'm making.

And I'm like, well, You don't even need to make that because I'm [00:37:00] not making that. And I'm fine. Like, you could be much happier than you think you need to be

Richie: Money, like money buys, choice, and it buys options, but I just don't think it's the one thing we should be focused on. Right? Like I think sometimes society has become, so this is me being over deep Richie, why are you like this? But you know what yeah like we become so individualistic. And so I want to earn six figures and I want to be successful.

And this is who I want to be. And I'm a bit like, you know, you come from a whole community, right? So that it isn't just about us and achieving and getting six figures is also about how we bring everybody else up as well. Like chasing this capitalistic dream. I'm not saying don't chase the dream and don't chase success and don't want to be successful and have financial freedom.

Why not? Why shouldn't you want that? But I feel like the story is much bigger than that. And we have to just move from being so individual and started to look around us.

David: Absolutely. And even what you were saying, like, I don't even think you need money to have choices. Like, okay. I don't know how, how much [00:38:00] money they're paying you, but you have two jobs. And you're able to, my, my point is between the things that you do, you are able to create space for yourself. You're able to give yourself choices and options, and you've kind of built a life that works for you. That is not, there's no blueprint for what you're doing right now. There's no, there's no box. You can take and say, okay, I'm, I'm going to take this life. You have to build that for yourself. But my point is that just like you have built this particular world that you live in, there's other people that could carve out little worlds for themselves where they can have a balance of the things that are important to them.

I want to go to what you were just saying in terms of this community


Richie: talk.

David: Okay. So I want to draw the connection and then you can extrapolate on this between, okay. It's a two-part question on one side is what do you think is the importance of you being where you are as a presenter and being able to talk about these deep community issues?

Cause I see you talking about all kinds of things. You talk about gender related issues. You talk about, you know, the streets [00:39:00] and, and violence related issues. You talk a vast range of things. What do you think is the importance of having this kind of platform that you have to be able to speak into those things?

And then also maybe on a community level, how do you think that we can better either interact or collaborate to be able to improve some of those situations?

Richie: I think where I'm at now, I have, I have a national megaphone, right? So one extra is a national radio station and we champion black communities and black issues the things that black people experience across the UK. Right? So I would say having a platform like that, like one extra talks allows us to have a collective conversation across the black communities, across black communities.

And each community is different, right? Black people in Wells are going to be different to Scotland. They're going to be different to England. Leeds is going to be different to London. Birmingham is going to be different to Manchester, all of that. Like, so for me, it's been able to collectively have a [00:40:00] conversation about black communities and experiences and bring people together.

That is what's really important to me. That was the first part of the question. The second part of the question I forgot.

David: You know, direction first, then we'll go back to the second

part Because okay. I have, I have a suffer civil qusurface levele I get to the real question is one extra for black people specifically.

Richie: Yes

David: Okay. Because why I'm interested in, okay. I saw you had a post on Instagram where you were talking about how you feel like on one hand, people are told that you have to build a profile on social media and you have to get all of these followers to be able to, you know, increase your presence and all of that, but it can also be a trap.

And so I'm interested in your perspective on, I want to know the backstory behind that, but I also want to know. Maybe potentially how that might tie to the fact that you're a presenter on the British broadcasting corporation. Like BBC, there's not choice FM. This is not you know, pirate [00:41:00] radio from some corner of Peckham.

You're on like a national stage, like you say. And how do you feel that you can have this authenticity where you talk about yourself and you're real, and you dig deep into these important conversations, but you're also cognizant of the platform itself that you're on. If that makes sense.

Richie: Yeah. If you're working with me, you ain't got no choice. I'm going to be myself and I'm going to be out here. So that kind of just is what it is. You brought me onto the BBC know who the hell i am. So I'm not about to change who I am. I think I've had to be smarter in the way that I present things and maybe hold myself to account more.

So if you're on a platform like the BBC, if you say something, you need to be able to back up what you're saying, the facts, you can't just be shooting from the hip on chatting. I need to be able to say, here are the articles related to what I'm saying right now, or here is the study that reinforces what I'm seeing right now.

So I think that's the way it's made me more robust but I ain't going to change who I am. It's maybe refined me a little bit. I've [00:42:00] refined myself. It hasn't refined me actually. So I've had to refine myself a little bit more to make sure that if I am held to account, I can say, yo, like, here's the backup for what I'm saying?

You know what I mean? But there's no balance for me to be honest, David, I mean, if we're talking about the social media thing to go to that, I am just not that guy, man. Like I'm not an Instagram guy. I'm proper, not like I don't like really. I take pictures of myself sometimes, but I don't really like it.

And then when I go on Instagram, I don't really know what to say, but I want to be able to interact with people and have fun and everything I do on one extra talks is always so serious. And I'm a proper joker and I'm slack. And I swear, and I'm, I there's this whole part of me that I guess people don't see the, I want to put on social media, but I'm just lazy as hell.

So now everyone's like, if you want to grow as a broadcaster or you want to grow a media career, you have to get better at social media, Instagram specifically. And I'm not great at it. Like I love to go and chat crap on Twitter, but when it comes to like curating a video, I'm not great at it, bro. Like I'm not, [00:43:00] and I, I need to get better, right.

I guess. But I'm an introvert at heart. People always know that about me. I come, I'm great. I presenting, cause that's what I do. That's my job. But outside of that, I re I really like being on my own. I can spend free weeks in my house on my own. Absolutely fine.

David: Yeah, I think I'm exactly the same, to be honest

Richie: Yeah is hot you know I mean

David: Yeah.

And that's the funny thing is it's really difficult because, okay. So I think there's, there's two things I can say. One in general, it's really difficult because once you start, once you build a particular profile of yourself, you kind of then have to live up to that and that becomes your identity.

And you have to, you have to follow that path, not necessarily, but that

Richie: No, no. For a lot of people,

David: Yeah, That's what the algorithms are pushing you to do. That's what, and also, one thing I will say is also that it also creates an expectation because there's people that are following you, particularly if you're getting thousands and thousands of followers.

Now, people are expecting something from you. As an example, even when I started my newsletter, I [00:44:00] remember, okay, now I think it's going well, I can write stuff every week. Fantastic. But it was really hard at first because. One, you start with this great intention of, oh my gosh, I'm going to do all of this.

And then you realize that sometimes you're tired. Sometimes life is happening. Sometimes other things are going on and it's difficult. And then people are emailing you, strangers people that I've never met are emailing you saying what's happening. Where's the, where's this week's newsletter. What's going on?

Are you okay? Is something happening? And I'm like, I'm trying to rest. And so I think

there's, there's that. Yeah, exactly. So there's that difficulty as well. But like you say, it's also hard when it has this great potential to push your career forward and to give you momentum that you might not have had otherwise.

Richie: You know what, though, to be honest with you, I had, I built my whole career by being myself. And that's why I think I'm lucky. So everything carved, like I .Twitter, built my career to be honest me, just talking on Twitter and connecting with people and then moving into entertainment and stuff. But I would say I've always [00:45:00] been myself.

I've never had to put on a persona, like kind of what you see of me online is what you see offline as well. And like, you can't be an introvert on Twitter because you're talking. So you never know whether someone's an introvert or an extrovert, right. It kind of is what it is. And I'm very friendly in person as well.

That's just who I am. The things I've spoken about. I've been talking about black social economic issues in black communities. I was out here marching when I was 16. You know what I mean? So this isn't a new thing to me. I was talking about all these issues. As soon as I got a Twitter account, I got a Twitter account.

My first one was 2009. And then I think I came off and in 2000 and maybe 11, 10, I was talking about all of these issues. So this isn't new to me. I haven't had to change myself who my career has grown with me as a person, rather than me having to grow in a particular way in order to get a career, it's all happened organically.

So I'm lucky. No one can say to me, oh, Richie you're seller or Richie. Oh my God. I didn't know you used this kind of person you already knew. I was a piece of crap. So I mean, I have to change, you know, ways,

David: Yeah. [00:46:00]

Richie: So

David: Okay. But how much harder do you think it is to be authentically yourself and speak on things in the same way when you have a national platform? Because it's one thing to talk on Twitter and it's another thing to speak on the radio, just because the other part of it is the feedback. On Twitter is it's limited.

Like it's people that follow, you can go on private. There's, there's some ways in which you can constrain, who sees what you say. You could even just write in your diary. That's, you know, it's different. Radio, you're speaking into a mic. I'm not even sure if you know, as you're talking how many people are listening at that exact moment.

And you only know when you get the responses and you get people calling you and so you get people jumping on to tell you about yourself live and they, and they're speaking to You And then you get people that are in your Instagram comments and all those other places. So how do you deal with that part of things?

Richie: Oh, there are pretty people are pretty nice to be honest of you, but it's hard. It's hard in being in the BBC. When you do something on the [00:47:00] BBC, you follow impartiality guidelines, right? So we're all people, we've all got our views. We've all got our perspectives on things, but as a broadcaster on a national radio station, then you have to be impartial.

Not about everything. You don't have to be impartial about racism. If racism exists, then you can call that out. And you can say what you need to say based on it. Right. But when you're talking about politics, that can be difficult sometimes because you can't force people or you can't be seen to influence people to vote for a particular political party.

So you have to be very mindful what you share about your own personal views online. That can become difficult. Because when I started out, I was gunning the conservatives doesn't matter what part you're from. You're all getting gunned. So maybe that's impartiality, you know what I mean? I've got it in everyone, but you know, that's been hard.

Like I have to be careful about what I say politically, I can make critiques of the government, but you also have to be very careful that you're not influencing political opinion because you are part of a national broadcaster. So that is a line that I think it's had to be difficult on reflection. Now you've asked me the question, but aside from that, I'm [00:48:00] myself, David, and you know what I said, I'm going to keep moving mad until I get feedback that tells me not to, you know what I mean?

So I'm like, yo, I'm going to keep pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing. When I get that email Richie Brave conversation, we need to have a conversation then maybe I'll see what happens next. But yeah, I'm just, I'm working on vibe still, man. See if you not, don't hit me on the radio in six months time, you know, I've said something mad.

David: I hear that as a, how do you feel about, I know you mentioned before keeping the door open for other people that are trying to come up and I'd even, like I was saying, I think. Radio is such an interesting thing where I'm not even sure, but loads of people want to do that when they're coming up and people are young, I guess it's because like, I, like we were talking about music is such a big part of our culture and not just music, but some of these conversations.

So how do you like feel about and act on being able to hold a door open for other people?

Richie: So important to me. I I'm can be really rubbish at getting back to people. I'm just being transparent. So for me, cause I'm busy, you know what, I'm doing two jobs in it and sometimes I can work up [00:49:00] to 70 hours a week. And that's what I think people don't understand. Sometimes I'm getting 50 emails in a day.

It's not just one or two. Some people are all reached out to you to come on a podcast or I've reached out to you to come and do this. I'm like, yo, I, I manage myself. I don't have an agent. I manage my own inbox. Everything you see is, I am the machine. There's no other machine behind me. I'll do it all you know, so keeping the door open.

I, when I do it wherever and whenever I can, so bringing people in, I can do that. I'm always like, I'll go and talk to youth groups. I have charity. So a section of my wages every month goes towards charitable things. So I'll wait. I've always done that, you know so always try and make sure that there's something community-based embedded in what I do.

And I would like to do more. So I'm in the process of carving out time right now to be able to get some streams work streams in that can bring more people in. But when people are like, I want to have a conversation about present and I'm like, yo, let's jump on zoom. If they don't saw at the zoom, I'm too busy.

I can't swipe the zoom. [00:50:00] If they're saying, are you free on the 11th of April at 7:00 PM? And if I am free, yes, send me a calendar invite. Boom we're in. You know what I mean? But I just think keeping the doors open is really important. People safeguard and they what's the word gatekeep, the positions they're in the jobs that they do.

They don't talk to young people or people, their own age group, or people older than them that want to come in. They get very precious about things that I'm not like that. Ask me about what I do. Ask me how I got into what I can, what I did ask me about my pathways, how you can get into it. I'm more than happy to sit down and have those conversations.

David: It's so interesting because I feel like I definitely agree and I think it's so important to hold the door open and to provide all these opportunities, but just to touch on something you were saying, One thing I really want to say, and I'm saying this to people listening is that you also have to like come correct.

And I think there's a part that sometimes what I find is there are some people that are ask you [00:51:00] something and it feels like you're not actually trying to do this for yourself. You are just asking people, just throw out a question. How do I do X? You don't give me any background information.

You don't tell me anything about what you're doing, what you're worth. Like you have to have some ownership and some agency of what it is that you're trying to do. I think, I just think there's generally and even like what you were saying following up is a huge thing. That is, that is a skill. And I'm not saying this in a, a way to denigrate anyone that doesn't, but I'm saying this was something I was not good at when I was in uni for the two years that I was there.

And so when I was in uni and when I was very young. I'm not saying that I was good at these things either. I'm saying these are things that I've learned just in the same way that you've mentioned. I love to do these things. I've, I've spent so much of my life like doing community programs, helping people, all of that.

Sometimes I'm busy. Sometimes I miss things, but literally just the power of following up, sending a follow up [00:52:00] email, chasing on things. So many people don't do that. That's a huge thing. There's someone that literally works at my company right now that sent me a email one day. He literary was following me on Twitter. I think he from, he only heard about the startup that I work at because I mentioned it in my newsletter and now he works here.

So it works, but I'm not going to say that the first time he had to send me a two messages, but the second message then, so, but that's, that's part of it. I think part of it is just when you actually have ownership over, sometimes I think. And one thing I've written about is the difference between like sinking or swimming or swimming and thrashing, right.

And swimming being, even if you're headed in the wrong direction, just intentionally just taking the strokes and just trying to head somewhere. Whereas I think very often the default and even for me, and, and I've been in this position as well, is where you're just thrashing and your, you feel maybe like lost and confused and you don't have direction.

And you're just trying to reach for anything and [00:53:00] anyone and just trying to make something work, but you don't actually have anything in mind. And so sometimes I feel like people are just throwing things out there just to see what hits, to see, you know, if something comes out of it,

Richie: And a bit of respect is so important for me, David, like people reach out like, oh, put me on your show. I'm like, oh cool. Like, oh, you listen, what's been your favorite show. I've never listened before. And you're like, what? Like your demands on me. I put you on a show and maybe like, it's something that could happen if there's a subject matter or like that overlaps, but you've never listened to it.

You've never supported it. You've never retweeted it. And my show is a black community focused show, you know, like it's trying to create change in the community. And I get, if someone says to me realistic, I've never listened to the show. I'm going to check it out and put me on your show. You need to have me on your show.

You're coming with that energy. And then you're like, and I'm like, oh, wicked. Like, what's been your favorite like episode. Like what, what have you listened? I've never listened to it before. So you don't respect what I'm attempting to do here, but you want to be part of it. You don't even know what my show's [00:54:00] about and you're demanding that I place you on it.

It doesn't make sense to me. It feels a bit disrespectful. Me and the production team put enough time into this, or you just want to walk on and not even say, oh, like I've got this subject. And I think it'd be really good for the show. And I'd really like to come on and speak about it. That is fine. But when you come with, put me on your show energy, literally put me on fine.

If you can tell me about what the show is about. Let's talk,

David: Yeah,

Richie: I hate it, come prepared man. And just respect the person you're talking to.

David: And even with questions you have, it makes such a difference when you actually, when people actually have specific questions. If you have a specific question that I can answer, then I'll give you all the answers you need. Send me as many as you like, but some people just will ask the most vague, you know, how do I become successful?

Or, you know, how am I going to tell you?

Richie: I don't know

David: I can't Tell you any of this stuff.

Richie: Tell me.

David: Yeah. But I think it's, but that's why it's important as well. Like, first of all, it's great that you have the [00:55:00] platform that you have and the position that you have and the visibility that you have that people are able to see that and they able to, you know, hope that they can emulate that and able to ask questions and able to send you things.

And simultaneously I think the other part is. Yeah, it's an example of, you know, what is possible and the things that you can do, I'm interested to know. Okay. If you did not end up doing what you're doing now, like what path do you think you would have gone on?

Richie: Oy oy, what would I be doing? Maybe something in computers.

David: Okay.

Richie: It'd be computer programming or it would be music production. I like to produce. It'd probably be music focused, to be honest, if it'd something to do with music.

David: Do you dabble in computers or did you drop that completely


Richie: I kind of dabbles sometimes, sometimes I'm about to start a coding, kind of teach it.

So I used to do Turbo Pascal used to be able to write that Java script or that kind of stuff. I'm a little bit rusty. So I'm going to go back cause coding is a thing now. Right? So[00:56:00] I'm going to go and try and learn it, man. But yeah, I'm not in it as much as I used to be, or I might be in prison. You never know David could be prison for me.

You know, we both spoke about our childhoods

David: Yeah.

Richie: Who knows what could've been

David: what the coding thing is so funny though, because I remember, so I learned to code like all these random, I had all these books about like Java scripts, my SQL, C plus, it's not when coding was a thing that was not, I don't know anyone that actually did that as a job. Well, at least coming from where we came from, maybe that's what it but I never thought of that as, oh, this is a job I can do.

I was just doing it so I could make money selling websites. Like I was doing this just as a skill that I could use to make money. I didn't take it any further than that. And it's so funny how I didn't even see the connection between learning that. And I don't know like technology. In on a much wider scale until became a popular thing.

And then you had Facebook and you had social media and you had all of those [00:57:00] things. And now everyone wants to be in tech. Oh, now I'm in tech. So I think that's another funny piece as well. We do for anyone listening. But what's funny is that, that, that goes back to what we were saying before, right. About how.

We don't always see the opportunities and you don't always see the amount of doors are open. I know even for us, but even for other people and for the community are large, I think is a point where if you don't have people that can sign post those things for you, if you don't have people that can say, oh, if you're interested in coding, yo, yo, you know, there's so many jobs that you could do.

There's so many opportunities that can come out of this skill that you have, or this talent that you have, or this thing that you're interested in. And I think that exists in so many areas of the community where I don't think, or because maybe not often enough, people are pointed in a particular way to have an outlet for some of their interests.

Then people just don't see it as viable and they just never go there.

Richie: Yeah, it makes complete sense to me. And that's why leaving the door opens important. Right? [00:58:00] Sometimes you need to let people know that the door is there.

David: So what's next for you? You're not going to become an Instagram baddie overnight.

Richie: Well, you know what if I kept my buddy, right? You never know, you know, if that six packet is popping Nyash is popping, then you might see me in some shorts or something. But I, I think can sit like continuing down the broadcasting route to building this for me. I love it. I really love media.

I really love radio. I love it. Maybe TV. You never know, but radio is my love. I love having conversations so my ultimate dream. And I think a lot of people have this dream is to be like a Oprah or like Piers Morgan, but not a dickhead. You know I mean? Just like

Let's be real. I feel that we're still in kind of Dick. I feel we're still in Dick head territory there,

Yeah. I don't know, like, well, I'm saying, I don't know. I think he's a bit of a dick head, but I just Like, I want to be somebody that people come to to have conversations. Right. So if you've gone through something in your life where you have a story [00:59:00] to take, tell, I want to be the person to be able to explore that.

So I definitely like journalism kind of conversations and all that kind of stuff. Broadcasting is next for me. What's next for you, David? Do people ever ask you that because I'd love to know,

David: That's a good question. I'm actually not sure.

It's weird.

Richie: Are you vibing as well?

David: Kind of, because I think that's the other thing, like going back to what we talked about, I've taken a very unconventional route. There's no, there's no box you can take to get where I am. Like I did one thing I led led to another thing I worked in law that led to consulting for startups.

Then I was Chief of Staff. and now I'm in Product operations, but you know, I didn't have a traditional background to get where I am. And if you ask me what the next role is, because I'm not on a traditional path, it's just whatever the next opportunity is really like, whatever big thing is. But then there's also the combination of between that and the things that I'm trying to build for myself, like having this podcast I have my newsletter, having, you know, the website that I run, all of that stuff where there's big opportunities [01:00:00] there.

And I love that side of things and I would love, there's a part of me that would love just to do that. But also there's a part of me that still loves, like what I do.

Richie: Yeah, how do you find struggling strategy in like tech and media at the same time? So having this whole meet, like the newsletter, the podcasts all of this kind of stuff, and then having a full-time tech job, how do you find struggling the two.

David: It's difficult to balance now. Time-wise is, is difficult. Sometimes. I think what is helping now, like right now, specifically at this moment in time where I think I'm getting a lot better at it is trying to find overlap between a lot of the things that I produce. So for example, Okay.

We're recording this now this can go on YouTube. I can cut it up into clips. I can write about what we've discussed. We can, we can do a lot with the same stuff. If you get what I mean, like I can talk about the things that we've just discussed now and use that in other kinds of content. Whereas before I think when I was first. Part of the journey of [01:01:00] building something from scratch is figuring out like what your platform is. And I'm sure maybe it was the same for you. Like you have to figure out what is my, what is my voice? What do I actually talk about? And I think part of that is just trying stuff. So I've, you know, spent maybe two years doing this.

The current iteration, the current version has only been here for like maybe five or six months. So someone, someone I just interviewed recently was asking, oh, how long have you been doing this podcasting thing? And it's like, the current version of this podcast is very new. I have been running this exact same podcast.

I've changed the name. Maybe twice I've changed the podcast art like three or four times. Like I've been doing this thing for, I think since 2018. So that's like four years, but not consistently, it's been start and stop but I think that's part of the process, the creative process where you're trying things, you're learning things.

You're seeing what works, what doesn't work. You say something and you think, does this feel authentic to me? Is this who I am, because do, do I want to be the person that talks about this kind of thing? [01:02:00] Do I want to be known for this? Because I think that is also what happens sometimes.

And this maybe comes full circle to what we were talking about at the beginning where I feel like maybe part of my personality is multifaceted. I can talk about finance stuff. I can talk about technology, stuff I can talk about society stuff, and I can talk about productivity and all of those things. And I think one thing that I found is that part of the reason I started even with the podcast is because I was tired of people coming and asking me the same questions and the same with the first version of my blog as well. I was like, let me write it down one time. And anytime someone asks me for the link, I'm going to send you the link this, this same thing where I've already answered the question.

And the first, if you look, I haven't even deleted them. The first couple of episodes of this podcast, some of them I'm talking about like politics stuff and some other things. And then there's a few which are about investing. And literally every time someone asks me about investing that I recorded those specifically.

So I can send you this thing this is it's done. But then [01:03:00] I had to be like, is that actually me? Is that like it, is that what I want to be? Because I feel like around that time, then people start coming to you only for that and I went through a period where I was like, yeah.

I can talk about that. And I know about that, but I don't know if I want to be that guy.

And so You have to kind of, I don't know if it's rebranding or branding full stop, and I hate the phrase branding, but it is. You know, deciding who you want to because being online, being online is a really weird thing. Where in person live, you have nuance and people appreciate the nuance of who you are as a multifaceted being.

Because everyone that you meet, you don't assume that you know everything about who they are based on the context you met them. If I met you at a party, I'm not going to assume you're the party guy. I would know that today you are at a party tomorrow you could be doing something else tomorrow. You could go to your job. Tomorrow you could be doing all kinds of stuff. But online is really weird [01:04:00] because we make snap impressions of people based on whatever it is that we saw them talking about the first time. That's that person now, or if you talk about one thing a few times, that's this person now.

And so maybe that,

Richie: I guess like that isn't. You're like, guy who likes to clap cheeks. You are the girl that twerks. You are the person that eats biscuits for dinner. It's just not how it goes.

David: Yeah, exactly. Like, and also if you have, and that was another issue, not issue, but that was another period I went through where I feel like my Twitter before I wasn't using it for anything, I was just making jokes. Like, just Because, this stuff is funny, all kinds of funny stuff onto and so yeah. I would just make jokes and then you become a funny guy and I'm not, that's not who I, I, maybe I am.

I think I am in real life, but

Richie: Yeah. I think you're funny. Yeah,

David: I don't want to have to live up to that. That's not all of who I am and what I do. You have to go through an intentional process of being like, okay. Just so you know, he is everything else. That's also part of my life.

Richie: I can't be honest, you know, if you might think I'm a bisky I [01:05:00] saw, right. Let's just say, but I get it when you're building something, I'm just going to be the biscuit guy, man. I went out recently, someone approached you was like, you're that guy from Twitter. And I was like, I guess I'm the twitter guy. But it's interesting to....

I know we've spoken about me, but it's interesting to hear your journey as well, right? Like that kind of balance between the two and how, like, I think there's a real message in that never stopped trying and figuring out what works for you. What might be for you this week might not be for you in the next three weeks and not being scared to like tried it out and change it.

I think that's so important when it comes into careers. Like sometimes like the best thing about being a vibes person is wherever the vibes takes you, you never know the opportunities that are going to be in there. You just step in excitedly to explore it. And I think that's really important, man. And it's probably a beautiful thing that you've done with your podcast.

The vibe has taken you elsewhere and you've just followed it. Authenticity, man.

David: Absolutely. I think that has to be the title of this episode is following the vibe. That's what it is now. But thanks for making the time man. I really Appreciate it.

Richie: Appreciate you [01:06:00] my guy. No, no problem at all. It's an honor.

David: And also I, we didn't mention, but this project that you've just started, I just want to know the announcement, you know,

Richie: Yo yo. Yes. So I'm going to, can I do a little ad? Okay, great.

So hello, it's Richie Brave, I'm joking. So basically I am the official one extra ambassador for the, we move social acts and fund children and needs um, one extra have made a relationship together. So they've come together to create the we'd move action, social action fund.

And it's a fund that has ยฃ10 million. Over 10 years. So they basically give a million a year for projects that are specifically rooted in like the betterment and progression for black youth. So it's for black children specifically. um, anyone listening, if you've got any ideas, I'm so sorry, David, I'm proper dinner at here.

If anyone's got any ideas, go to bbc.co.uk/Pudsey P U D S E Y. Your idea doesn't have [01:07:00] to be developed. They do a six month development program. So if you've just got idea that you know, will help your community, you can apply. Get the funding I know will help you develop the idea. And if you're already an established organization, you can apply for up to 50,000 pounds.

It's wild, man.

David: I love that. That's amazing.


Richie: so amazing.

David: is a lot.

Richie: 10 million equity, you know, equity.

David: But these are the things that we need in our community. I know we've already talked about this, but you know, even shout out people like Stormzy that are putting people on with books. I just think it's huge. The impact that people can have.

And you only realize it when some people start doing it because other people weren't doing it. And it's not to say, you know, other people, what other people should have been doing with their money. That's not what I'm saying at all, but I'm saying that. It's crazy to see the amount of impact that can be had when very few people actually intentionally go out and try and make that impact.

Like, I don't think it has to be a huge thing. And I think sometimes that is what we're waiting for. [01:08:00] We think that it has to be a massive movement. It has to be black lives matter, like scale. It has to be all of this going on, but sometimes just a few people can make such a big difference. And so just like Richie was saying, just like you were saying, for anyone that's listening, if you have any ideas, feel free to send them in, drop the email one more time.

Richie: So if you have got questions, wemovefund@bbc.co.uk. And if you'd like to apply it, or you want more information, bbc.co.uk/pudsey that's P U D S E Y. And this is unapologetically black it's for black children and black led initiatives.

David Elikwu: Thank you so much for tuning in. Please do stay tuned for more. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. It really helps the podcast and follow me on Twitter feel free to shoot me any thoughts. See you next time.[01:09:00]

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