🎙️ Leadership, Fulfillment, and Focus with Alan Stein Jr.

David speaks with Alan Stein Jr., a speaker, coach, and author. He spent 15 years working with top-performing basketball players (including NBA superstars Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, and Kobe Bryant) and now teaches companies how to apply the same strategies in business. He is the author of Raise Your Game and Sustain Your Game, which offers proven strategies to improve both individual and organisational performance.

They talked about:

🏆 What makes a great coach

🤝 How team chemistry impacts success

🌟 The impact of working with the right people

🚀 Progress over perfection

⏳ The importance of consistent development

🎯 What is the true measure of success?

This is just one part of a longer conversation, and it's the second part. You can listen to the earlier episode here:

Part 1: 🎙️ Character, Accountability, and Coaching with Alan Stein Jr. (Episode 120)

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👤 Connect with Alan:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alansteinjr/?hl=en

Twitter: https://x.com/AlanSteinJr

Website: https://alansteinjr.com/

📄 Show notes:

[02:17] How Coach K builds people, not just players

[04:05] How to lead and be led

[06:02] Not every ladder is yours to climb

[08:51] When should leaders adapt?

[11:40] Personality matters as much as skill

[15:03] Don't chase perks, chase the right leadership

[18:04] Is it better to focus on the now or the future?

[21:09] Consistency is the key to success

[23:15] Your actions should match your ambitions

[24:53] What you do every day matters

[27:47] Success isn't a goal, it's a daily habit

🗣 Mentioned in the show:

Coach K. | https://coachk.com/

Clutterbuck Coaching & Mentoring International (CCMi) | https://clutterbuck-cmi.com/

Kevin Durant | https://www.nba.com/player/201142/kevin-durant/

Stephen Curry | https://www.nba.com/player/201939/stephen-curry

Greg Popovich | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_Popovich

Mark Few | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Few

Nick Saban | https://rolltide.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/nick-saban/545

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David Elikwu FRSA is a serial entrepreneur, strategist, and writer. David is the founder of The Knowledge, a platform helping people think deeper and work smarter.

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📜Full transcript:

How Coach K builds people, not just players

David Elikwu: Yeah, I know you've interacted with Coach K. I'd love if you could extrapolate a bit on what makes him such a good coach because just to break this down you know obviously people will say he's the most winningest coach in college basketball history he's won loads but I don't think it's just winning it can't just be okay that he's won loads of times like, what specifically is it about him that sets him apart from so many colleges have had coaches over the years?

Loads of people have had lots of different coaches. Lots of people have won championships, things like that. But there seems to be something different about the impact that he has both on the people that he plays with and also the people that he even just coaches or trains with, even in a separate capacity.

Alan Stein, Jr: I think with someone like Coach K, he understood, you know, I'm not here to coach basketball. I'm here to coach people. You know, basketball is simply the vehicle. It's simply the thread that ties us all together. But at his core, he's trying to connect with each and every player and each and every coach and his staff, and get the best out of them.

And, you know, certainly there'll be some commonalities and some principles with high utility that work with most human beings, but he also understands how important it is to individualize and personalize and customize and the exact way that he'll coach and communicate with one player might be slightly different than the way he does it with another player. Or the way that he communicates with you as a freshman might be different than the way he communicates with you when you're a senior, because you're more mature, you have more experience, you know, so he, he really understands the nuance of human behavior and the nuance of coaching people, not just coaching the X's and O's of the game of basketball.

I mean, certainly he knew the game of basketball as well as anybody. And from a strategic standpoint and X's and O's standpoint, but at the end of the day, it's actual human beings and players that need to execute those different skills and so forth. And that's really what he would he would coach to.

How to lead and be led

David Elikwu: Okay. One more question just on this point. Again, kind of looking at the two sides of the coin in coachability and coaching, there were obviously levels to this stuff, right? You know, like you've mentioned, not every coach is Coach K. Not everyone is as coachable as let's say Kevin Durant or Stephen Curry.

What does it take to level up as a coach or as someone that wants to be coachable in any domain, right? So I could be someone that works in the office. I could have a boss, I could have a team. What does it look like for me to get better at coaching, especially when, and I think, okay, using a parallel to football, something that you have a lot is people talk about coaching trees, right? So you have, okay, this coach previously worked for this coach who previously worked for this coach. And so you have, even though the philosophy might change, and even though this person might end up with their own ideas, there's this built in idea that there is an underlying philosophy that will come and be grandfathered through these levels of coaching.

I think I see that slightly less in business. It seems like, you know, there's a presumption that everyone's just going to be kind of different and Hey, this boss is this boss and that boss is that boss. So I'd love to know, yeah, your thoughts on the balance between those things.

Alan Stein, Jr: Well, one thing, I mean, if we're going to keep, especially talking about the sports side of things, we have to understand that the level at which someone coaches isn't the full picture of their acumen as a coach. I mean, some of the best coaches that I've ever been around were high school coaches were division three basketball coaches.

So I think it's, you have to be very careful in making the assumption that, you know, all NBA coaches are better than everyone else. And all division one coaches are better than division three. And all college coaches are better than high school coaches. Any real true coach of their, knows their stuff knows that that's not necessarily true. Now, yeah. Do I believe that the overwhelming majority of coaches in the NBA are masters at their craft and have a very high basketball IQ and acumen? Absolutely. It would be almost impossible to get to that level without that. But it doesn't automatically mean they're better than someone else.

Not every ladder is yours to climb

Alan Stein, Jr: So to me, a lot of it has to do with fit. You know, you, you take somebody like Greg Popovich, the longtime hall of fame coach of the San Antonio Spurs, you know, is coach them through their dynasty. I mean, no one would argue that he is one of the best NBA coaches of all time. And he's certainly one of my favorite. Well, he might actually not be a very good middle school coach, you know, that might not be the level or his temperament or level of patience might not resonate as well with a group of 11 and 12 year olds compared to the way he can coach NBA players. Same thing with Coach K, maybe coach K would not have been as effective if he had to coach a group of 6th graders. Maybe he would have been even better. I'm not here to cast judgment. I'm just saying that there's different levels and I've known some high school coaches that they had the self awareness to acknowledge that. Hey, I don't want to coaching college or in the NBA because that's not the right fit for me. Like, I know that with my personality and my skill sets and my strengths. I'm best working with 14 to 18 year olds.

So some of it is just a matter of, of fit. And that's why I just want to make sure that someone listening, that is a youth basketball coach, and you're really good at what you do, you know, don't feel the pressure, you have to matriculate up and don't think that you know, well, I need to work towards becoming a high school coach or a college coach or a pro coach. You don't have to unless that's what you choose to do that you can continue to be, as we say, star where you are and be the best coach that you're capable of at the level that you feel is best suited for your skill sets and your strengths. And to me, that's the most important part.

And that's also why I like when you see a coach, maybe that coaches at a smaller program and the example that jumps out immediately, is someone like Mark Few, the coach at Gonzaga, you know, he has turned Gonzaga into a national powerhouse, but Gonzaga is not one of your traditional blue chip college basketball programs in the United States, you know, and he's been offered the biggest jobs there are, and he chooses not to leave. Because he likes his situation at Gonzaga. He likes where he lives. His family likes where they live. He likes the university, you know, he likes the league they plan. And I always have so much respect for a guy like that, who has chosen to stay somewhere where he believes he can have the biggest impact and where he believes is the best fit as opposed to always chasing something shinier or something that is perceived to be bigger and better. And that's really hard to do. At the same time, I don't fault the guys that are enamored by the bigger job and take the bigger job. Like I get it, but I just have a lot of respect for anyone that coaches at the level that they believe is their best fit and they don't, you know, succumb to any of these external, pressures.

When should leaders adapt?

David Elikwu: I'd love to hear what you think about the balance between. There is an extent to which these two ideas are kind of different, right? There's a distinction between, okay, the two things we've just talked about. What's the extent to which you should optimize for finding fit? Versus trying to make the best of what you have, right? And these are two ideas that we've kind of discussed so far.

And when I think about the fit, I think, first of all, it's a really important point that you bring up and I've definitely experienced this and it's funny how, just thinking about what we're discussing, it's really this idea that, like you say, it's not always just about the individual player. You see this in sports loads of times. You see someone that is a bad fit for one particular team and it looks like they're underperforming. Suddenly you put them somewhere else. They're a superstar, right? You see, I think I'm a Lakers fan. I've seen this a dozen times, right? You have someone that seems like they're underperforming on the Lakers. You send them to your rival, suddenly, they're sixth man of the year. Suddenly, they're, you know, some incredible player. I think you see this at work as well. Sometimes, hey, you're working in a particular team, you're suffering, things seem really hard, you don't have a great relationship with your boss, suddenly you move somewhere else. And that same person that seemed like an underperformer in one context, suddenly can thrive in a different context.

And funnily enough, I've had a little bit of the opposite actually. So I used to work in corporate law and one of the best bosses that I've ever had, you know, whether it was in law or in tech or in any space, I was just thinking about this recently, before I joined the team. So in the banking finance team. They weren't going to let him have trainees. They weren't going to let him have juniors anymore because, because again, coming back to this idea of fit, I think he had a penchant for throwing people in at the deep end and just giving them things and saying, you know, giving them complete trust and saying, Hey, I'm going to leave you to get on with that. And that doesn't work for everyone. But for me it worked and it was funny because I always just thought, hey, this is him being a great boss. It works really well for me. I've achieved, I had more growth in the time that we worked together than I have had almost anywhere else. And I was speaking to someone recently and they asked me, they were like, Oh, do you think he did that on purpose because it was you? Or do they just do that naturally? And that's when I just realized, huh, you know, actually, now that I think about it, I think he was just like that generally, but I happened to be the right fit. So when we worked together, everything's worked out really well. That was a fantastic pairing between the two of us, but when you put other people in that position, they might not perform that well, and actually it can feel like there's a lot of friction. They might doubt themselves. It might look like he's not the best coach, you know, that there's a balance of those things and that's in a professional context as well.

So i'd love to hear what you think about that balance, you know, let's say if you're a manager, okay, you might have some people that are underperforming. What's the balance between, hey, I should focus on trying to get the best out of these people versus actually, look, I know that I have a particular type of disposition and I want to lead a particular type of way and I should try and hire for a particular type of person that's going to thrive in that context.

Personality matters as much as skill

Alan Stein, Jr: Well, I'll look at it from both angles, and it's certainly a very interesting dichotomy that you bring up. I mean, first, from the player point of view, or the employee point of view, I mean, this is something I tell my own children, all three of which play youth basketball, and that is you need to star in the role you have while you work for the role that you want. So right now, if your coach is saying you're going to be the six man, and we expect you to play eight to 10 minutes a game, these are good shots for you within that's what he believes is what's best for the team. And you need to fully commit to maximizing that role to the best of your ability. You need to, to know that role, you need to embrace that role and you need to try and star in that role.

But if you would like to have a bigger role, instead of being the six man, you want to be a starter instead of shooting three or four times a game. You want to shoot eight or 10 times a game. And that's something you need to work towards before and after practice. Coming in on your own time to work on your shot, work on your game, to study film, you know, so same thing for any employee, star in the job you have while you work for the job that you want. Whether that's with your same company or organization, or you aspire to leave and go somewhere else, but the commitment while you are still playing for that team or working for that company, you can't have one foot in and one foot out. That's not fair to the group. You need to be fully committed to starring in that role. Even if that role is not your preference, even if that's not the role of your choosing, you've chosen to be a part of something bigger than yourself. When you made a commitment to be on that team and you have to sacrifice some of the me for the we. And in order to do that, you need to be all in for your role, but then in your own time in and around practice or in and around office hours, you can try and work towards the job or the role that you'd prefer.

Now, on the other side of it, from a coaching standpoint or a management standpoint, I definitely believe in hiring always for fit, you know, that's one of the reasons that I think, a Coach K or a Nick Saban or a Bill Belichick or a Greg Popovich were always very successful was because they knew not only what type of skill sets they most wanted, but what type of personality traits and character traits, would jive best with their type of coaching that'd be very specific in the type of kids that they would recruit or the type of in the pros, the type of people they would draft or the free agents that they would look at.

So I think you have to be understanding that, Hey, not everyone is going to be a good fit to be a part of this program. So I have to have the discernment to figure out who would be.

Don't chase perks, chase the right leadership

David Elikwu: Yeah, I think you touched on something really important there and just to double down on that, I think fit is incredibly important, both as the employee and as the employer. And the more I think about it now, I think it's just so crucially important. One thing I always recommend to people, like I mentioned, I had that great boss since then I have realized the most important thing you can do in any role is to pick your boss. And that's exactly what I've done in all the roles that I've done since then. Probably the number one factor for me is who am I going to be working with? And I'm, I'll make all the other decisions based on that and everything else goes through that lens, because once I know who I'm going to be working with, you should translate everything else through that because there's a lot of things like, I'm trying to think about how to pass this into a basketball context or into a sports context. But let's say, for example, you have some schools, some colleges, let's say Oregon, Nike is there. So that college football team has incredible facilities, the best facilities that I've seen, you know, they've got all kinds of stuff, all kinds of facilities, all kinds of training. They've got great uniforms, they've got everything.

The point is that if you don't have the right coach, if the right coach for you as a player isn't there, then you're not going to, all the other stuff is kind of window dressing, right? All the other things that you might think are going to be great about working in this place, if you don't have the right people around you, if you don't have the right teammates that are going to be there, if you don't have the right coach that's going to be there, you're not going to be able to maximize all the other stuff.

And I think very similar with working, you could be making a decision that's based on, Hey, if I take this job, the pay is going to be great, or it's going to be in this area or things like that, but you know what, if you don't have the best boss, all the other stuff is going to feel horrible. You're not going to get the most out of it. This nice office building that you could be in, you're not really going to enjoy it. It changes so much about a lot of the other things. One more thing I wanted to ask you kind of, oh, Sorry. Go on.

Alan Stein, Jr: You just brought up something so important and that is understand that if you're going into a company to be interviewed for that job, that you should be interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you that you need to be asking the right questions. And I'm so glad you brought that up.

It's such an insightful point. You know, is this the type of person I want to work for? Is this the type of organization I want to work for? You know, I don't want to just get blinded by the big brand name or the cache that the organization has, or like you said, just put all of my eggs in one basket. Like they're willing to pay this much, but is this the right fit for me? Because it needs to be a good mutual fit. You need to be able to say, what's good for me is going to be good for us. And what's good for us is also going to be good for me and it needs to be somewhat symbiotic. And if both groups go into it saying, Hey, this isn't about good or bad or right or wrong, like you're clearly talented, you have an amazing resume, you have great experience. All of that is a given. Are you the right fit for us? And are we the right fit for you? And if both groups can opt in with a huge double thumbs up and a smile, then you give the relationship and that job the best chance to be successful.

Is it better to focus on the now or the future?

David Elikwu: One more thing I wanted to ask, kind of related to this is another area where I think sometimes it's a little bit different, the way that we treat it in work than the way people might treat it in sports, or at least, you know, I'd love to hear your thoughts, is how we balance the short term and the long term?

I think this is a really interesting thing to find a good balance of, because on one hand, very often now you hear people say, hey, it's about the journey, not the destination. And I think that is definitely true. But simultaneously, I don't know if that can always apply in sports in some contexts. So again, here's the balance. Sometimes a team must prioritize rebuilding over the long term, over trying to win at all costs in the short term. But simultaneously, sometimes in a given season, it might not just be enough to say, Hey, you know, everyone, as long as you make some friends here, everyone's going to have a great time. You also must be competing for the championship, right? You're also trying to win and the way that you orient the entire team's focus and goal is still very important. Orienting people around this same vision, this same objective here is something that we're training for. We're not just training to play. We're not just training to have fun in this context there is something we're working towards. All the schemes, all the training, all the, you know, the way that we schedule our practices, the way that we collaborate as a team, there was a goal that we're working towards. It doesn't mean that it's necessarily always Championship or Bastion. Hey, if you didn't achieve this, then, you know, you were a terrible player and your life wasn't worth it or something like that. But I think there is this balance of, sometimes we should be optimizing for the short term and sometimes it's worth planting a flag in the ground and saying, we're really going to go for it. We're actually going to take this seriously. We're going to play for the short term. We're going to try and do this thing right now, but then sometimes it's actually worth taking a longer term view.

And, you know, you do see this in sports in particular is probably an easier place to draw this analog. But actually business can be the same, right? You have a lot of businesses where if they're optimizing only for their quarterly profits and you don't actually spend time investing in people or investing in your product for the long term, then your business eventually disappears, right? If you look at the difference between, let's say Apple and Nokia at one point, Nokia, they were making the best phones all the time, but Apple was building for 10 years from now, right? They were building for the future. If they start building for, Hey, this is what the future of technology is going to be, I'm not worried too much about what's happening today or right now. I think actually a really great example of this is recently Meta just announced their new goggles, right? Their new smart glasses. And the idea, or the point being that Snapchat already released, they just released their second version, right? They released the first version of their AR glasses a few years ago. And Meta, no one else was necessarily doing it at the time, but I think because Meta seems to have had this very long term vision of, Hey, there's something else that we're building towards. There is actually a very different long term vision. We're not going to need to compete with you right now. We don't have to focus on doing that right now, this season, this year. Actually, if we're playing the long game, we will eventually get there. And suddenly, this year, Snapchat released the second version of theirs, Meta released the first version of theirs, and it's already better, right. The first version of theirs is already better than the one that someone else has been iterating on for a long time.

So I'd love to hear what you think about that balance between playing for the short term and playing the long game.

Consistency is the key to success

Alan Stein, Jr: I guess, generally speaking, it's always going to be somewhat of both, but I, my personal perspective and stance is to always focus on development, always focus on progress and always focus systems and processes. And if you keep your focus on those things, then the results and the outcomes will just tend to take care of themselves.

I think the most important part is to have that longterm vision of where it is that you're trying to go and what it is that you're trying to achieve. But then constantly, recalibrate to make sure that your current processes and systems are still in alignment and congruent with where it is, that you're trying to go. So, you know, once again, if apple saying, you know, our goal is to have the best smartphone, you know, 5 years from now, then that's going to help dictate some of the processes and systems and the way that they approach their work at present.

And same thing with a team, whether it's a team that has the potential to win a championship this year, or whether it's a team that, as you mentioned, is in kind of a rebuilding phase, they still need to be focused on development still need to be focused on progress. It really just comes down to kind of the external expectations. You know, what is everyone else saying? Is everyone else saying that you're in a rebuilding year or that you have a chance to win the championship? I just know that for me. I think it is very important to have goals and to have a north star just to make sure that you're moving in the right direction. But then the vast majority of focus needs to be what's in front of you right now, and what stuff do we have control over? You know, I mean, I'm certainly not privy to any additional information, but my guess is apple didn't spend a lot of time worrying about what Nokia was doing. Apple spent time focused on what they had control over and they know that, hey, if we have the best engineers and the best vision and the best culture, and we pour into this, we're going to win eventually, whether we win this year, we win 10 years from now, but we're going to win. So they don't really spend a lot of time worrying about what everybody else is doing. They get so singly focused on their mission. They let everybody else worry about them. And to me, that's, that's an approach that that usually can work really, really well.

Your actions should match your ambitions

David Elikwu: Yeah, I think one thing I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about is something you just mentioned now, which is having a North Star or having a goal and also like reviews. And I think I've heard you talk about both of these in slightly different contexts. So, you know, you've mentioned, I think in the past that sometimes you have like a one word goal for the year or like a North Star. This is the one thing you're focusing on. This is the one thing you're working towards.

But the other thing, not so much that you've mentioned it, but I'd love to hear what your thoughts are, actually, no, there's a way in which you've mentioned it before. So this concept of review, the way I was thinking about it is, you know, so I played, part of the reason I talk about football is because I played football during university actually, in the UK. So not, not college football per se, but we played here. And one of the most important parts, which I think funnily enough is extremely underrated in people's professional lives, is that we watched game film. And it's unfathomable to me that the idea that this was such a crucial part of playing, right? It's not just that we have practice and we go out on the field and we play. When you play games there are cameras. You will come back and we will sit in a room and they will project you playing in practice and in the game and the entire team will be there and we will look and we will see, okay, here's what you should have done. I played cornerback so, you know, here's how you aligned up against this wide receiver. Here's where your alignment might've been off. Here, you should have moved your feet differently. Here's how you should have done something else slightly differently. And by having that process of review and looking back over what we did, instead of just blindly moving forward, it allowed you to, hey, take a step back and think about, you know, what should I be doing?

And it's very easy to deviate from the path that we know that we should be on, simply because there are small little things that we don't always notice.

What you do every day matters

David Elikwu-1: Something I've heard you talk about before, at least in a corporate context, is that very often, I think the exercise that you did with people is something like, hey, you get them to sit down and think about what are all the things that, you know, light you up, that help you to sleep well at night, what are the things that make your life feel great, make you feel good, and then make a list of those things and then separately make a list of all the things that you actually do, you know, in the day or before you go to bed and what is that like in practice?

And it's this idea that there is often a gap or a difference between the things that we know in our head, we should be doing based on the goal that we have or the objective that we have, or the things that we know that we ought to be focusing on and the things that we actually end up doing. And the way that we end up living our lives, following our objectives, working, etc. So I'd love to hear how you think about the, both of those things, both in terms of goals and in terms of objectives.

Alan Stein, Jr: Well, I think generally speaking, goals are way over glorified and over indexed. Everybody gets so excited just about the goal itself. But the goal itself doesn't really make anyone unique, generally speaking, every team in the NBA has the goal of winning a championship. I won't say every person alive, but most human beings have the goal of being fairly physically fit. The goal is not what's important, it's what you choose to do every single day. It's your standards. It's your habits. It's your behaviors. It's the decisions you make. So saying, I want to lose 10 pounds. Is a great goal as far as it gives you some direction, but what's most important is what are you going to eat for your next meal? Are you going to move your body the next chance you have an opportunity to work out? Are you going to get quality sleep tonight and hydrate and do all of the little things that if you do those things consistently, which is kind of the word that we started our conversation with, that's going to end up giving you the best chance to yield the goal that you want.

So for me, it's it's not about the goal, it's not about saying, we want to win a championship this year. It's about getting as many people on the team as possible to commit daily to a championship level standard, to have championship level behaviors and habits, you know, to act like a champion before you'll even have an opportunity to become one, you know, same thing with someone that's looking to get in a little bit better physical shape. Don't worry about losing 10 pounds. Just focus on your next meal and eating something that's appropriate and healthy and nutritious. Don't worry about losing 10 pounds. Focus on going for a walk tomorrow morning for 30 minutes, and the more you can focus on the part that's right in front of you, the better off you'll be.

And that's why I do that self audit that you just mentioned. You know, people talk about, I want to be a high performer and I want to be more productive and I want to have high energy and I want to be confident, I want to be optimistic. It's like, awesome. That's great. Well, how many things do you do every day that take you closer to being that person?

Success isn't a goal, it's a daily habit

Alan Stein, Jr: And to me, the best part to look at of our day is the bookends. It's the morning and the evening routine. If you're not committing some time in the morning and some time into the evening, into the things that actually nourish your soul and fill your bucket and make you feel alive, well, then you have less of a chance to perform at a high level or to be more productive or to have more optimism or confidence. So it's all about doing the things, not just kind of casting out a goal and wishing and hoping for it.

So, to me, I do think having the goal that you're pursuing helps give you some clarity on the direction at which you're going, but the real juice is in what's right in front of you. It's in the daily behaviors. And if you want to become a champion, then you need to start behaving like a champion now.

One of the examples I'll leave you with, you know, all three of my children I have 14 year old twin sons and a 12 year old daughter, all three of them play youth basketball and all three of them have told me that they have the goal of playing college basketball. So the, the yardstick at which I hold them to is basically saying, right now, you need to behave as if you are a college player. Like you need to have the level of commitment on your game, on your academics on being a good teammate. On all of these things, you need to act as if you're a college player now, because that's the only thing that will even give you any remote chance of becoming one later and if they choose to, you know, if I invite them to go for a workout and they say, no, thanks. I want to play on my phone. That's fine. But then the only question I asked them is, that decision you just made. Did that take you closer to being a college player or did it take you further away? And I get them to answer it because I, I want my own children to have the autonomy to make their own decisions, but they know that even though they're free to make whatever decision they want, they're not free from the consequence of that decision. And I never guilt or shame my kids. I never pressured them, but I just let them know that you had an opportunity to go work out and to inch one little bit closer towards being a college player. And you chose not to. Now that's over. We don't have to worry about it. But if you keep making decisions that are not in alignment with becoming a college player, then you're, you're kind of creating your own future. And college basketball will not be in your future if you keep making those decisions.

David Elikwu-1: Man, I love that, Alan. I think genuinely that that was a really, really interesting angle and perspective. And I think I just love the idea that you know, hey, if you want to, it's not just about having the goal of we want to win the championship, but we're going to play like a championship level team, like today.

And if you play every game, if you attend every practice, if you live your daily life, like you're preparing for a championship, the goal takes care of itself, right? You don't have to focus on obsessing over the end goal. You can just focus on the next rep, the thing that you do today, the thing that you do tomorrow. And eventually, the ends will take care of itself. So thank you so much for sharing all of that, man. That's, it's been a really fantastic conversation.

Alan Stein, Jr: No, it was my pleasure. This was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it as well.

David Elikwu: Thank you so much for tuning in. Please do stay tuned for more. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. It really helps the podcast and follow me on Twitter feel free to shoot me any thoughts. See you next time.